Peony Lane Vineyards: Ben Justman
Ben Justman holds three of his award winning natural wines.
Ben Justman grew up on a farm in western Colorado, where his father made wine for the local community. Little did Ben know, this humble beginning would spark an entrepreneurial journey that would lead him to the intersection of traditional winemaking and cutting-edge cryptocurrency.
In this episode, Bobby Shell of the Chamber of Bitcoin sits down with Ben to uncover how he transitioned from the fields to founding a natural winery, and how embracing Bitcoin transformed his business.
Join us as we explore Ben's leap of faith, the challenges he faced, and the innovative strategies he employed to integrate Bitcoin into his entrepreneurial journey.
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Twitter / X: @benjustman
Website: Peony Lane Wine
Full Transcript
Bobby Shell: All right, hey, it's Bobby here with Benjamin. And this is a unique series we're kicking off. Thanks to Rob Michael and a couple of others, we are launching that Bitcoin chamber or Chamber of Commerce for Bitcoin. And the goal is to bring like-minded entrepreneurs together to solve business problems, to inspire more entrepreneurship in the Bitcoin community, and to help educate current entrepreneurs about Bitcoin and the impact it has on business. And today, we're chatting with Ben. Ben, thank you for being here. I've always been just impressed with how you handle yourself online, grow in the business, leveraging Bitcoin as a part of your brand story. But to kick things off, you know, tell folks who don't know who you are a little about yourself, your story, and background. And, you know, we can dive into all things business and Bitcoin.
Ben Justman: Of course. So I grew up on a farm in western Colorado where my dad grew all his own food and ended up producing a bit of wine for himself and a bit for the community. I kind of watched from afar and never wanted to join in. And then as I got older, I turned 25, and kind of got the entrepreneurial itch and was looking for things to do, and saw what my dad had done with wine, and started looking into it more, having never really taken it seriously before, but realized that he was making wine that a lot of people enjoyed. So knowing my dad realized he had no sense of taste or smell, and knew that he was making really good wine, and figured that I should try my hand at it. So in 2019, I just went all in having never made wine before I got a liquor license, spent all my money to start making wine that year. And knowing I would never have, I wouldn't have wine to sell for another two years. And we just have to kind of figure it out as I went. And just jumped right in and went for it to kind of see what I could do. And that seems like a good path. And so after selling out of wine for my first few years, it ended up, I guess, working out but it was a long struggle to get to that point and learning and, and waiting on wine. But yeah, so I sell wine, I make natural wine in western Colorado, and found a huge benefit. Once I started selling wine for Bitcoin, and honestly just becoming a Bitcoiner and being part of the community has just been a huge part of my growth in the business sphere.
Bobby Shell: Cool. You said you kind of burned the bridges, went all in. And I think about the meme where it says I will never financially recover from this. But it's like, hey, we did in fact, financially recover from this. And it's cool that you did what your father did. Like there's something in business nowadays, where they call it identity foreclosure, where people don't do what their parents did, they want to go off and do their own grand thing. But you saw an opportunity. It sounds like in the family business. You jokingly said your dad maybe doesn't have a taste of smell or taste. But, you know, maybe you do. But that's that's a cool story. Now, you went all in, like a lot of folks don't just, you know, burn the ships, I'm gonna go all in, I'm committed to this, I'm going to do whatever it takes. Could you tell us just a little bit about maybe some of the challenges you just face as it relates to starting and scaling a business, you know, never having done that before?
Ben Justman: Yeah, actually, both a benefit. And a huge drawback to wine is what drew me in was that it would take so long to actually get established and have wine to produce. So I had time to learn how to make wine and learn how to do all that. And then I had time to learn how to run the business. So when I started making wine, like I said, I went all in financially, but I still had a full time job. I was living five hours away from the winery and just commuted during wine season, it was a pretty crazy amount of work. For that time I was doing 40, four hour day, four ten-hour days, drive five hours that night, work 3 12-hour days, drive five hours back, and then repeat for about six weeks during winemaking season that first year. And so I dropped all my money into that had the full time job but you know, that was basically just supporting me, I wasn't that psyched on it. And then had to do it again for another year. But at that point, I had moved back home to build a house with my dad. So for the first two years when I had no wine to sell, so that's no income and was all in and had no proof of concept. I still had the full time job. And on the side, I guess I was learning how to make wine and learning how to run a business. So I had two years to kind of download that information. Learn as much as I could have as many freak outs as possible, to you know, I got to all in and there's reasons to be like, Oh my God, what am I doing? But eventually, I just knew it was the right thing to do. It was the right fit. And I, I knew I had to bet on myself. So yeah, that's the hardest thing with wine was waiting for so long I have to think so far ahead of time. Like, in January this year, I was putting orders for grapes that I won't sell until 2026. So I have no idea, realistically, because I'm small and growing, I have no idea how big my winery will need to be to satisfy demand. I have no idea how big I necessarily want to get. And I have no idea what grape crops will come between because I could get a really crappy year of grapes. And after this year, and wish I'd ordered more the year before before I've even sold. It's it's a lot of waiting. So it's I think always you're learning by the seat of your pants and I think with with wine, it just kind of gave me a little bit more time and segmented bits of time where I can focus on different things. So the beginning I was able to focus on making wine. And then I was like, Alright, now I have a business and I can I have a product to sell and I can focus on selling it. But yeah, not having any product market fit for the first two years was definitely scary.
Bobby Shell: Yeah. And kudos to you, I think you did something a lot of people have a challenge doing you're working seven days a week 10 to 12 hours every day and sometimes to get things off the ground. It does take a level of sacrifice for a few years and that's not for the faint of heart to do that but you made it through the other side. And I think that's one thing that's a good testament to entrepreneurs anyone listening sometimes it does take multiple years of just day in day out work and it's usually those who do commit and have that relentless attitude of I'm going to make it happen they do make it happen because not everyone's cut from that cloth. Now as it relates to the Bitcoin piece of business tell us about what that's done to help you know push the business forward and sustain the business if there's anything more speaking out.
Ben Justman: So I didn't discover Bitcoin until a little bit after I started the business and if we're talking financials honestly bitcoin is probably hurt my business in the short run from a like actual accounting perspective just because I was all in on the business and then I found Bitcoin it was like oh man I need to go all in on Bitcoin so I've probably moved some money that I would have reinvested into the business I don't know what I would have done I'm really happy to have bought Bitcoin but kind of Bitcoin was another way to delay delay success a little bit longer, but it started out it's just a hey, I love Bitcoin and would love for my friends to or would love for everyone to use Bitcoin. So of course I'm gonna put a Bitcoin sign up at my stand, advertise it a little bit. I was selling at farmer's markets primarily at the time. And I don't expect anyone to buy from it. I got a lot of people walking by being like, oh, like two girls would not each other and be like, Oh my god, Bitcoin was to tell your brother. But that was about it for a little while. And then people started buying every once in awhile and everyone who bought with Bitcoin or was psyched on Bitcoin and bought with Fiat would buy more would buy more than the regular customer because they wanted to support me they wanted to support another Bitcoin or they wanted to use Bitcoin pay in Bitcoin. And there was like a shared passion, a shared connection beyond high quality wine and a good product and, and just a interpersonal connection. So I've kind of quickly realized that those were Bitcoiners were my best customers. And then the only reason my like online sales started happening was because Bitcoiners started ordering my wine. I didn't try for this at all. It was like, of course, a little bit, but like, I did not expect to be selling wine online. I did not expect to be selling wine and big for Bitcoin. And it just kind of happened naturally where everyone wanted it. And what I realized is that one I think Bitcoin is a mark of quality. If you have a bit of social consensus, a bit of people like other you've seen other Bitcoiners try a product and rave about it. I think you trust that one, it's within your community, but also you know that Bitcoiners are this, like, very skeptical bunch. That's a I'm not going to trust until I verify and then when I do verify I take that very seriously. And so other people see that and so the word of mouth spreads relatively quickly. It is a small community. And then I do find that like a lot of Bitcoiners are people that are relatively new to wealth or new to feeling more more comfortable financially and wanted to kind to try new things and experience life a little bit better. So if you have a super high quality product that is worth a larger, you know that people can afford to pay for your higher quality products that are into Bitcoin, and are super interested in it. And so if you can also layer on a bit of a health element where with natural wine, you don't get headaches, or hangovers, like you do with conventional wine, just much more healthy, you get to latch into that low time preference living perspective that a lot of Bitcoiners have as well, where they're willing to spend that extra money for a high quality product that makes them feel better. And they feel better about spending with it, because they're voting with their money they're spending on a Bitcoiners business to support Bitcoin and Bitcoiners as opposed to just anything else. So if you have two equal products, and one supports Bitcoin, once one doesn't, obviously, people are going to choose the Bitcoin product in the Bitcoin space. But it's it's a very strong poll, like I will go out of my way to support a bit corner. And I think a lot of other people share that.
Bobby Shell: Yeah, yeah, that's cool. You shared a few good points, you know, you're at a farmers market. So there's a lot of foot traffic people walking by and it sounds like it kicks off and stimulates conversation creates eye contact, engagement comes from it. And then also beyond just that fact that it gets, you know, conversation going, people who do have Bitcoin, especially as you know, number go up, more people might have it in their wallet, they want to spend it, and they see a high quality product, and they're like, Hey, this guy accepts Bitcoin, let's let it go. And I've done that I've randomly seen vendors in public and like small, local, small businesses. And I'm like, Oh, they accept Bitcoin. I'm just going to spend this day even though I normally don't, you know, it's very rare you see it, but it kicks that off. And then I think you're greater point, you know, beyond like, general revenue coming in, you're talking about lifetime value. Those people tend to be really great customers. And usually, as you said, Bitcoiners, they have a good kind of BS meter, a good level of discernment. And they become lifetime customers, they recognize the quality of your product, you're a good person, and they come back and spend more, it sounds like is that right?
Ben Justman: I would say so. I definitely do get a lot of returning customers that are not Bitcoiners. But as far as like, the ease the appreciation, and my joy in like selling to a customer, I get I get a ton of joy, selling to a Bitcoiner. Because the goal like ultimately, if you look at my like, idealized version is I want to be selling all my wine to people I really enjoy selling or being around to, then it doesn't feel like sales, it just feels like supporting each other. So I'm supporting them with good wine, they're supporting me with money and like a good relationship a great customer night. So I find that Bitcoiners, by far, on average, are just much better people to work with. And that in addition to the support, and like, a lot of other things just makes it super easy to continue diving into orienting my brand to reach more Bitcoiners.
Bobby Shell: Yeah, and as an ecommerce and direct to consumer brand. And while you do have the farmer's market, you are very active on Twitter X. And you've done a good job leveraging Bitcoin, almost to kind of like, meme the story and like, make content that's relatable and visible. What would you share with someone who has an ecommerce or direct to consumer brand? how they could leverage Bitcoin and just the platform of X to grow the business? Could you share any tips there?
Ben Justman: Yeah, I think first and foremost, it doesn't work. If it's not real, it has to be 100%. Real. As we said, the corners have a huge, very strong BS meter. And you can really tell when someone doesn't quite understand it. If you're open, if you're like really trying to learn there's, you don't have to be perfect, like I've learned so much. But all it is, is you got to be fully genuine in everything. And like people can tell when you're just pandering, and I think Bitcoiners really appreciate when someone's just being real, and especially hate when people are pandering. So being real is huge. But also I think there's a lot of a lot of value in not even posting about what you have. I actually kind of laugh maybe maybe I don't probably don't have the perfect balance. But I do laugh when a lot of people are like, Oh, dude, I had no idea you ever made wine? And I think that's like a I'm building a relationship with these other people. Not around my business necessarily. It's around me and us our relationship. And so then when they realized I have a business, it's like, oh, I trusted that guy. He wasn't even trying to sell to me. We just kind of became friends. Of course I want to support him. So it's maybe a little bit different when you have a business account as opposed to a more personal account. I think you can connect interpersonally little bit better than having a business. But if you are very clear about what you stand for, and are not worried about those things that you stand for ruling out potential customers, you really latch into the people that you're trying to focus on. And that's a big enough niche pick winners are a large and growing niche that sure if you have a massive Corporation, maybe it's too small. But for most businesses, I think Bitcoiners are a very, very strong niche to dive into. And commit to not that you need to sell everyone tell everyone else to go to hell, but just being clear about what you stand for being real and not being afraid that not everyone's going to love it. You just got to speak to what you believe in. And I think you ended up finding the right customers.
Bobby Shell: Yeah, yeah, there's some really good points there. The authenticity goes a long way. And for those who maybe are not like marketing savvy, listening to Ben, like there's a lot of top of funnel stuff, we call it in marketing where you create fun loving stuff like Ben's a funny guy on Twitter, he's a great with memes and stuff. And he creates engaging likeable stuff that kind of warms you up to him. And then as you follow them over time, you see, oh, I make wine, I want to buy him support from him, that would be more bottom of the funnel. So he's a he's a great account to follow that does do that. And you shared something else there. That the end of I'm spacing now. But um, the other the other piece, oh, the brand, like you're spot on, because people don't necessarily relate to actual companies and brands that relate to the people behind them. You know, Elon is a great example. And, you know, as you said, you don't try to like pander to people and kind of meet everyone's needs, because you end up kind of you do piss everyone off. And if you look at voting, whatever, it's always kind of 50/50, you know, but if you're really committed to who we are, as people in our business of what we stand for, you're gonna win over the side that aligns with you, and those people will become raving fans. And, to your point, there's people out there everyday voting with their money. And there's people out there wanting to spend their money on goods, services, and businesses that align with their values. So by doing so, and committing to that, you actually create, in some ways a competitive advantage. So I think that's a good point.
Ben Justman: One thing I've really realized about that is, it takes a lot to run a business, especially with a smaller team. And passion has to be behind it. Like we said, with the going for it and working a ton. It's not for everyone. But the people who are competing against you who are trying to do similar things, you're not going to be able to beat them. Unless you're fully engaged and fully passionate about what you do. Because you can you can bang your head against the wall and work really hard. But if it's not flowing, if you're not really psyched to put in that work, you're probably not going to and you're not definitely not going to to your highest potential. So everything you can do to make it more real to make it flow and make it really work for you is how you're going to be able to put in that energy day after day to keep it going. And it also has the added benefit of people, people being able to see your real trust what you say. And you're going to be able to connect with those people a lot better. So they're going to be real good customers. So I think being passionate and just being you brings out a ton of hidden benefits that people don't think about.
Bobby Shell: Yeah, I love that. Well, we're getting close to time here. I appreciate you spending a little bit with us. Is there anywhere online you'd like to point people to if they wanted to check out what you're doing a bit more?
Ben Justman: Sure. I think the best thing to follow along my story and everything that's going on is on on Twitter can follow me at Ben justman. And then if you want to order online, you can get wine all over the US at Peony Lane wine.com six bottles ship free. So that makes it a little bit easier to to deal with the shipping of wine. But yeah, it's just great to connect with other people in business and in Bitcoin. So if you ever have any questions about what I'm doing, just feel free to reach out.
Bobby Shell: Great. Well, thank you, Ben. Yeah, and this is Bobby with the Bitcoin chamber. We're here to help entrepreneurs and business owners explore Bitcoin and start their business. So thank you, Ben. Appreciate you being here.
Ben Justman: Yes, thank you.